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QUESTIONS ARISING FROM 119th. MEETING – 29/1/21
(the record of earlier meetings can be downloaded from the main Circulus page as can the version of Ciceronis Filius with illustrations added. The illustrated text of Genesis is available on the Genesis page, of Kepler's Somnium on the Somnium page and of Nutting's Ad Alpes on the Ad Alpes page)

The meeting on Zoom was attended by: Valerie, Zhang Wei, Monica, Jennnie, Tanya, Stuart and Sam. John apologized for confusion in his recent message over where we had got to in Ad Alpēs. In December, we had only reached line 108 in chapter XXXII and in today’s meeting we finished the chapter and then read to l.71.in chap XXXIII.
 
Tan and Sam were eating Basmati food, ferried to them by Keon whose work place is conveniently close to the restaurant. John, who normally gets a takeaway from the Basmati on Sundays, is now using a shot of the restaurant as one of his virtual backgrounds for Zoom. The full menu, with descriptions on English and Chinese of dishes whose names might not be familiar, is available on John’s site at https://linguae.weebly.com/basmati-menu.html
​
Picture
                                        The Basmati with everything you could want except customers

The Ad Alpes text included the story of Orpheus’s descent to the Underworld to ask that his wife Eurydice, who had died just after their marriage, be allowed to return to the world above. The story is told by Ovid in the Metamorphoses (X:1-85) and there is a simplified, prose paraphrase of this in Latin via Ovid (chapter 21). An accompanying PowerPoint is available for download from https://linguae.weebly.com/latin--greek.html in the `Teaching aids for Latin via Ovid’ section.
 
Orpheus’ request won the sympathy of Pluto, the King of the Dead and his wife Persephone, and mention of them prompted discussion of  the story of the abduction of Persephone (Prōserpina) herself by Pluto. Her mother, Demeter (Cerēs), demanded her return to the upper world and the eventual agreement was that she would spend half the year beneath the earth and half above, her return to the surface allowing vegetation to sprout once more. Sam said there was a dispute over whether her time above was spring and summer or summer and autumn but the former is more likely, both because spring is the time when plants begin to grow and because in some regions `Persephone’ was actually a name for spring itself (see Plutarch’s essay on Isis and Oriris in his Moralia - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Moralia/Isis_and_Osiris*/E.html)
Like the story of Orpheus and Eurydice, the Persephone legend is included in the Metamorphoses (Bk V, 341-571) with a prose version in Latin via Ovid (Interim Reading IV, pp. 297-300) and a PowerPoint at https://linguae.weebly.com/latin--greek.html
 
Orpheus for a time won over everyone and everything with his playing on the lyre (lyra), a hand-held instrument that resembled a miniature harp and was a smaller version of the cithara, the word from which `guitar’ derives. Lyric poetry is so called because it was originally recited with notes on the lyre as accompaniment. For more details, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyre
Picture
                                             A muse playing the lyre on Mt. Helicon (ΗΛΙΚΟΝ) (5th cent. B.C.)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyre#/media/File:Mousai_Helikon_Staatliche_Antikensammlungen_Schoen80_n1.jpg
 
Chapter XXIII of Ad Alpes goes on to give the story of Aeneas’s descent to the Underworld under the guidance of the Sibyl, as told by Virgil in Bk 6 of the Aeneid, part of which is a set text for this year’s IGCSE Latin exam. Virgil’s story was modeled partly on Homer’s account of a similar trip undertaken by Odysseus and, on the basis of these detailed narratives, we can construct a map of the Underworld as the ancients conceived it. Within Pluto’s realm there was a place of punishment for those who had been particularly evil and also the `Elysian Fields’, where the virtuous enjoyed their reward.
 
The souls of the dead were ferried across the River Styx by Charon, whose name has to be pronounced with a hard `ch’ (as in chemistry). The Greeks and Romans placed a coin in the mouth of a dead body, believing that this would be needed by the dead to pay Charon their fare. Charon, like Hermes/Mercury and the Hindu god Yama, are described by the Greek term psychopomp – conveyor or guide of dead souls.
 
The name Plūtō, though it became very common in Latin, is in fact, like Hades (ᾍδης) is from Greek (Πλούτων). The original Roman name for the ruler of the dead was Dīs Pater, the first word having originally referred to any deity but then exclusively to Pluto. This semantic shift may have occurred because Latin dīs was also used as an equvalent of dīves (rich) and Greek Πλούτων (Plūtōn) is connected with ploútos (wealth). The Greeks seem to have connected the wealth and the ruler of the Underworld because precious metals are found buried in the earth.
 
We discussed the origin of the word suffer which John thought was probably Germanic but which is actually from Latin subferre (to bear from underneath). This is a warning that although basic words in English are more often than not Germanic, this is not always the case. There is a story about a 19th century professor who had a great hatred of the Romance (Latin and French) element in English and strove to speak as if the 11th century Norman Conquest, which opened the floodgate to these new words, had never occurred. He therefore never spoke of the `impenetrability of matter’ but only `the unthroughfaresomeness of stuff.’ He was then told that though `stuff’ may have derived from Old High Germanic stopfon (plug, stop up), this itself came from Latin stuppa (< Greek στυππη) meaning coarse linen. Utterly devastated, he promptly yielded up his spirit to the old Teutonic gods. His death may, however, have been premature as some other scholars think that stopfon was from a native Germanic root.
        
We finally considered whether `suffrage’ (the right to vote) was etymologically connected to `suffer’.The connection is actually only in the first syllable (suf < sub) as the main part of the Latin suffrāgium is from frāgor (shout (in support)) or frangere (break (a piece of tile to vote with)).
 
Picture

​The Underworld
http://www.maicar.com/GML/Underworldmap.html
 AD ALPES
CAPUT XXXII (contd.)

 
    Laetī in lītōre līberī cursitābant, conchās undique ēligentēs; 110 tum, sīnū replētō,
     Happy on  shore children  kept-running    shells from-everywhere picking-up    then  with-lap    filled
Cornēlia in saxō paulō suprā aquam prōminente cōnsēdit.
Cornelia      on  rock  a-little       above  water        sticking out    sat-down
    Dum ibi conchīs suīs intenta morātur,   Sextus ā tergō clam accessit, et subitō     magnā
     Whilst  there  on-shells  her  intent  she-was-tarrying  Sextus from back secretly approached and suddenly in-loud
vōce: "Cavē latrōnēs!" inquit. Quō audītō, Cornēlia perterrita exsiluit, et, pede fallente,[1] 115
voice          beware-of  bandits     said           with-this heard  Cornelia          terrified            got-up  and         tripping
in undās praecipitāta est. Tum Sextus clāmōrēs lāmentābilēs sustulit; servī autem, cum
into  waves    fell headlong               then  Sextus          cries             piteous          raised            slaves   however when 
celeriter in aquam sē prōiēcissent, puellam pavidam ad harēnam trāxērunt.
quickly         into  water  selves  had-hurled             girl             frightened    onto    sand          dragged
    Deinde omnēs vultū dēmissō ad raedās sē recēpērunt, cum Sextus longē ā tergō
      Then   all     with-face           downcast to  wagons selves  took-back        while  Sectus  far-off  from back
sequerētur, Cornēliā autem metū    et frīgore 120 tremere nōn dēsineret.
was-following   Cornelia    moreover with-fear and   cold                 tembling  not    stopped
Quōs cum aspexisset,  Drūsilla terrōre ēlāta:     "Quid nunc malī accidit?"  inquit. "Cūr hās
 Them   when she-had-sighted  Drusilla  with-fear carried-away  what now  of-evil  has-happened   said   why these
vestēs madidās videō?"
clothes    wet           I-see
     Nēmō vōce Sextum prōdere voluit; sed Pūblius, quī  frātrem trīstem procul sequī
     Nobody with-voice Sextus  to-betray  wanted but  Publius         who  brother       sad     in-distance to-be-following
animadverterat: "Suspicor," inquit, 125 "quid factum sit. Sextus noster, ut opīnor, dēnuō
  had-noticed                     I-suspect     said                      what     happened       Sextus   our          as   I-think      again
sorōrem lūdificāvit."
sister        played-joke-on
    Tum Cornēlius vultū torvō: "Satis in praesēns  iam dictum est  . Sed cum Arīminum
     Then   Cornelius       with-face stern   enough for the-present already  said has-been but whe n to-Ariminum
pervēnerimus,  tum haec rēs dīiūdicābitur.     Interim   in sōle vestēs madidae siccentur." 130
 we-will-have-reached then this  incident will-be-gone-into meanwhile in   sun  clothes       wet    let-be-dried
Quod cum factum esset, iterum profectī,  sub vesperum ad caupōnem dēvertērunt.
This   when   done   had-been      again  setting-off      towards evening    to           inn       they- went-aside
 
CAPUT XXXIII
      Manē,      cum raedae adductae essent, omnēs alacrēs cōnscendērunt. Sextus autem diū
     In-the-morning when wagons    brought          had-been   all    energetically       got-onboard                Sextus however long-time
maestus sēcum sedēbat; nam ā patre vehementer castīgātus erat, eumque suae imprūdentiae
sad                  alone  was-sitting   for by   father       severely             scolded  had-been and-him of for-own thoughtlessness
maximē paenitēbat;[2]    nisi enim prīdiē Onēsimus et Stasimus praestō fuissent, Cornēlia
very-greatly regret-was-affecting  if-not  for   previous-day Onesimus and  Stasimus             on-hand  had-been   Cornelia
fortasse in flūctibus periisset. 5
perhaps    in   waves   would-have-perished
     Postrēmō hilariōre vultū sē circumspicere coepit; cum autem  locō idōneō[3]  viātōrēs
        Finally with-more-cheerful  face self   look-around          he-began       when however  at-place suitable    travellers
cōnstitissent, ut cibus dēprōmerētur,   in umbrā adhūc quiētus sedēbat, neque ōrāvit ut sibi
had-halted        so-that  food could-be-unloaded   in   shad e          still    quiet          he-sat     and-not  asked that to-him
licēret        per agrōs vagārī.     Ē contrāriō ā mātre  petiit   ut sibi[4] aliquid nārrāret.
it-be-permitted  through fields to-wander  on   contrar y  from mother he-sought  that to-him something she-should-tell
     Drūsilla, prīmō recūsāre cōnāta: "Hīs diēbus," inquit, 10 "pauca legō.  Sed fortasse nōn
      Drusilla         at-first   to-refuse   tried               these   days    she-said         few-things I-read  but    perhaps  not
audīvīstī           dē itinere Orpheī, quī ad īnferōs dēscendit, ut   inde uxōrem Eurydicēn redūceret.
you-have-heard about journey of-Orpheus who to underworld  descended so-that thence wife  Eurydice  he-could-bring-back
   "Haec      nārrā, sīs, māter," inquit Cornēlia. "Ego quoque audīre volō."
       These-things  tell   please mother   said     Cornelia            I              too     to-hear  want
   "Memoriae trāditum   est,"      inquit Drūsilla, "Eurydicēn, dum 15 in herbā vagātur
      To-memory  handed-down it-has-been  said   Drusilla          Eurydice               while   in   grass  she-wanders
secūra, dentem serpentis in pedem recēpisse;   quō vulnere celeriter exanimāta est.[5]
free-of-care  tooth     of-serpent   in   foot   to-have received from-which injury  quickely   killed       she-was
   "Quam cum Orpheus diū        dēplōrāsset,  cōnstituit ipse dēscendere ad umbrās, sī forte[6]
         Her       when  Orpheus  for-long=time had-mourned  he-decided himself   to-descend to   shades      in  case
cantū suō dīs īnferīs persuādēre posset, ut Eurydicēn ad superōs  redūcī          paterentur. 20
by-singing his gods below    to-persuade he-was-able that  Eurydice  to  world-above to-be-brought-back  they-allow
   "Quārē sine morā profectus, per 'templa   alta   Orcī  pallida lētō,       nūbila   tenebrīs   loca'[7]
         So       without delay having-set-off through temples lofty  of-Orcus pale   with-death  gloomy with-darkness places

NOTES
[1] Literally `with foot deceiving [her]’
[2] Like several other impersonal verbs, paenitet takes the accusative of the person feeling the emotion and genitive of its cause or object.
[3] In prose a prepositional phrase (in locō idoneō) is more usual than this plain ablative.
[4] This is an indirect reflexive, referring back to the subject of the main clause (Sextus) not to the subject of the dependent clause (Drusilla).
[5] The story of Orpheus is told in Book X, ll 1-85 of Ovid’s Metamorphoses and summarised in prose in chapter XXI of Latin via Ovid. A PowerPoint illustrating the chapter can be downloaded from the `Teaching aids for Latin via Ovid’ section of https://linguae.weebly.com/latin--greek.html
[6] Literally `if by chance’
[7] The words are from Cicero, Tusculanae disputationes,1.48, and he is often assumed to be quoting from Andromacha, a play by Ennius (c.239-169 B.c.). However, Cicero does not name his source and Varro (Lingua Latina, 7.6), who does make this attribution, quotes rather different words. See Brill’s Companion to Roman Tragedy,pp. 18-19, https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=x8VWCgAAQBAJ

iter fēcit, ipsamque Prōserpinam impavidus et rēgem īnferōrum adiit.
journey he-made and-herself  Proserpina      fearlessly  and   king    of-underworld approached
    "Apud quōs lyrā personat, nervōsque ad           verba movēns ōrat ut uxor sibi reddātur.
        Among them on-lyre  he-plays    and-strings to-accompany  words  moving he-begs that  wife to-him be-returned
Interim, dulcēdine cantūs captae, umbrae 25 undique flēbant. Quīn etiam Tantalus nōn diūtius
Meanwhile by-sweetness of-singing captivated  shades   in-all-directions were-weeping indeed even  Tantalus  not  longer
aquam captāre cōnātus est, et Ixīōn vultū rīsit invītō.[1]
water    to-get-hold-of          tried   and  Ixion with-face smiled unwilling
    "Hīs precibus resistere nec Prōserpina neque ipse Plūtō poterat, et Eurydicē vocāta est.
     These    pleas    to-resist  neither Proserpina        nor     himself Pluto was-able   and   Eurydice     called  was
Accessit uxor adhūc dē vulnere tarda; quam Orpheus laetus recēpit. Sed dīmissus est cum 30
  Came-up wife         still  from  wound     slow       her          Orpheus     happy  received     but  dismissed he-was with
mandātō ut abīret statim, nēve prius respiceret quam ē rēgnō īnferōrum esset ēgressus; aliter
instruction that he-leave  at-once  nor  earlier  look-back      than   from kingdom of-underworld he-had emerged otherwise
irritum dōnum futūrum.
void               gift     going-to-be
    "Silentiō Orpheus et Eurydicē ascendērunt clīvum arduum, obscūrum, calīgīne ātrā
      In-silence  Orpheus  and   Eurydice     ascended                  slope    steep               dark     with-darkness black
dēnsum; nec procul āfuērunt ā margine ōrae superae, cum ille, veritus nē uxor dēficeret,
thick               nor   far   they-wer  e-away from edge  of-shore upper    when  he     fearing  lest     wife was-loosing-strength
amāns oculōs 35 retorsit.
lovingly    eyes         turned-back
    "Quō      factō, illa statim relāpsa est; neque Orpheō, etsī Charontem ēnīxē ōrāvit, flūmen
       With-which done she at-once       fell back   and-not    to-Orpheus  although Charon   forcefully he-begged river
iterum trānsīre licuit, nec posteā uxōrem umquam aspexit."
again     to-cross  was-allowed nor  afterwards     wife                      ever     he-saw
    "Tū quoque, māter," inquit Cornēlia, "audītū trīstia nārrās. 40Vix lacrimās teneō,    cum
           You  also       mother           said    Cornelia         to-hear  things-sad tall           scarcely   tears    I-hold [back] when
dē Orpheō miserō cōgitō."
about Orpheus wretched I-think
"At," inquit Sextus, "quis est ille Charōn, aut quō modō is Orphea prohibēre potuit
     But   asked  Sextus               who is  that  Charon  or  in-what way          he Orpheus to-provent he-was-able

NOTE
[1] Tantalus, the great-grandfather of Agamenon and Menalaus, stood in a pool whose waters receded whenever he bent down to drink, while the fruit hanging above him moved upwards whenever he tried to reach it. This was punishment for his having served his own son, Pelops, as a meal for the gods to test their omniscience (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalus). Ixion revolved eternally on a wheel of fire after he attempted to seduce Hera (see https://www.ancient.eu/Ixion/)..

​quōminus redīret, ut iterum uxōrem peteret?"
from         return  so-that again   wife   he-might-seek
     Tum Pūblius: "Charōn erat portitor," inquit, "quī umbrās 45 cymbā trāns flūmen
         Then  Publius          Charon     was   ferryman           said     who   shades              in-skiff   across  river
Acherontem[1] vehēbat.  Dē hīs rēbus   multa   dīcit poēta Vergilius, quī refert quō modō hērōs
Acheron                      used-to-carry about these  things many-things says   poet         Virgil           who  related in-what way      hero
quoque Aenēās ad īnferōs dēscenderit, ut ibi patrem Anchīsēn convenīret."
also           Aeneas   to  underworld  descended so-that there father      Anchises   he-could-meet
    "Dē hōc amplius, sī vīs," inquit Sextus. "Libenter tē audiō." 50
       About this  more     if you-will   said        Sextus          Gladly    you   I-listen-to
    "Aenēās, cum classem ad Italiam appulisset," inquit Pūblius, "Sibyllam statim adiit,
            Aeneas    when   fleet           to   Italy     he-had-brought   said         Publius           Sibyl        at-once went-to
quae ad īnferōs dux viae esset.   Illa autem eī respondit:
who  to  underworld leader of-way might-be  she then     to-him   replies
 
                                                 " ' Facilis dēscēnsus Avernō;
                                                          easy    descent      to-Avernus
                   55    Noctēs atque diēs patet ātrī iānua Dītis.
                               Nights    and  days  lies-open    of-dark door Dis
                               Sed revocāre gradum superāsque ēvādere ad aurās,
                                   But     to-retrace       step              and-above       to-go-ou  t to    air
                        Hoc opus, hic labor est. '[2]
                                 This   work   this   labour  is
 
      "Praetereā monuit paucōs admodum fuisse,           quī umquam ad ōrās rediissent superās,
              Besides   she-warned   few         exceedingly there-to-have-been  who    ever       to  shores   had-returned above
cum semel eō dēscendissent; sīn autem 60 ille perīculum tantum subīre parātus esset, in opācā
when   once there they-had-descended but-if  however  he           danger      so-great  to-undergo  ready was          in   shadowy

NOTES
[1] Acheron was the name both of a real river in western Greece and of one of the five, interconnected rivers of Hades (or Orcus), the others being the Styx, Lethe (`River of Forgetting’), Phlegethon (`River of Burning’) and Cocytus (`River of Lamentation’). Further details at https://www.thoughtco.com/five-rivers-of-the-greek-underworld-118889
[2] Virgil, Aeneid, 6:126-8. Dis is another name for Pluto/Hades. Both Virgil and Ovid place the Sibyl near Cumae and Lake Avernus (Lago Averno) at the north end of the Bay of Naples but Servius, the 4th century Virgilian commentator, links the story of the golden bough with the cult of Diana Nemorensis and the fugitive slave priest by Lake Nemi in the Alban hills over 100 miles to the north (see chapter 23 above). No other ancient source mentions the bough in connection with the Nemi shrine so Virgil might have been drawing upon an entirely separate, purely Cumaean legend or on his own imagination for this motif. For a full discussion of the Nemi cult and the text of all the original sources see C. Bennett Pascal’, ‘Rex Nemorensis’, Numen 23:1, 23-39, https://www.jstor.org/stable/3269555.  Aeneas’s meeting with the Sibyl is described in Book XIV of the Metamorphoises, and summarised in chapter XXI of Latin via Ovid, with PowerPoint at https://linguae.weebly.com/latin--greek.html

silvā inveniendum esse rāmum aureum, quī, ut mūnus acceptissimum, ad Prōserpinam
wood   to-be-found              to-be    bough   golden    which as   gift               most-welcome         to  Proserpina
dēferrētur.
might-be-carried
      "Aenēās, fortūna adiūtus, rāmum invēnit, et Sibyllā duce      per spēluncam ātram
      Aeneas           by-fortune aided            bough     found  and with-Sibyl [as]leader through   cave        dark
prōgressus     iter     īnferōrum brevī carpēbat. 65 Prīmō occurrunt speciēs horrendae, quās hērōs,
having-advanced journey of-underworld soon -was-on                first    there-meet-him apparitions  terrible       which  hero
timōre commōtus, gladiō strictō transfīgere     parābat. Sibylla autem docuit illās esse umbrās
by-fear     moved           with-sword drawn  to-run-through was-preparing Sibyl  however explained them to-be  shades
tantum, quae nec laedere nec laedī   possent.
only      which  neither to-harm nor to-be-harmed were-able
        "Sīc ad rīpam Acherontis pervēnērunt. Quōs cum appropinquantēs vīdisset Charōn,
         Thus to   bank    of-Acheron           they-reached         them   when   approaching              had-seen    Charon
statim abīre     iussit; nam sibi nefās esse 70 corpora vīvā trādūcere   cymbā. Postquam autem
at-once  to-go-away ordered as for-him wrong  to-be        bodies       living   to-take-across in-boat           after       however
rāmum aspexit aureum, sine morā Aenēān comitemque in cymbam recēpit.
bough    he-sighted  golden      without delay Aeneas       and-companion  into   boat    he-received  

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