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​QUESTIONS ARISING FROM 124th. MEETING – 18/6/21
(the record of earlier meetings can be downloaded from the main Circulus page as can the version of Ciceronis Filius with illustrations added. The illustrated text of Genesis is available on the Genesis page, of Kepler's Somnium on the Somnium page and of Nutting's Ad Alpes on the Ad Alpes page)

​QUESTIONS ARISING FROM 124th SESSION  18/6/21
To get round the problem of Covid regulations requiring us to sit in different groups, Eugene arranged the seating as if for a seminar, so we could face each other over a gap between rows of tables. Items then consumed included agnīna cum orȳza arōmatica (lamb biryani), melongēna contūsa (baigan bharta, mashed aubergine or egg-plant), batātae cum brassicā Pompēiānā (alu gobi, potato with cauliflower) cicera arōmatica (chana masala, spiced chickpeas), pānis Persicus (nan) , spīnāchia cum caseō (palak paneer, spinach with cheese), orȳza pilauna (pilao (or pulao) rice), squilla arōmatica (prawn masala), gallīnācea butyrāta, gallīnācea cum aliō (garlic chicken), holera mixta frīcta cum aliō (garlic fried mixed vegetables), okrum arōmaticum (bhindi masala, `lady’s fingers’, okra with spices) and, of course,vīnum rubrum,
 
We have up to now referred to biryani as orȳza arōmatica (`fragrant rice’) and the same term could also be used for pilao/pulao rice. However, whilst both dishes are made with rice and spices, biryani is a more eleaborate dish, with richer ingredients and a different cooking method, as explained by experts at https://biryanibykilo.com/blog-the-real-difference-between-pulao-and-biryani  It might, therefore be more logical to reserve orȳza arōmatica for pilao and coin the term biriāna for the other dish. However, having used orȳza arōmatica for the more comple dish for so long, it seems easoier to stick to that practice and use pilauna for the simpler one.
​
Picture
                                                                                                          Pilau rice
                                                                              https://hintofhelen.com/easy-pilau-rice/  
 
We read from the start of chapter 36 in Ad Alpes to line 113. This includes the Old Testament story of how Achan, together with his whole household and animals, was stoned to death as punishment for keeping for himself booty which should have been consecrated to Jehovah. Zhang Wei wondered whether there was a connection with the name of Aachen (alias Aix-la-Chapelle), Charlemagene’s capital in the modern German province of North Rhine-Westphalia on the border with Belgium and the Netherlands. The name is actually from ahha (Old High German for `water’ or `stream’, corresponding to modern German Aach, `river’ or `stream’) and refers to the springs which made Aachen a spa town, 
​
Picture
                                                                          The stoning of Achan and his family
    https://www.boomerinthepew.com/2009/07/what-are-we-to-learn-from-the-stoning-and-burning-of-achans-whole-                                                                                                        family.html
 
The town’s Latin name was Aquae Granni (`Waters of Grannus’), Grannus being the Celtic god of healing to whom the waters were sacred. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aachen#Etymology and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grannus The name Aquae Grannīis is paralleled by Aquae Sūlis (modern Bath in SW England) and the Romans equated Grannus with Apollo just as they did the Celtic goddess Sulis with Minerva.
​
Picture
​                  The modern Carolus Thermen (Charlmagne Baths) fed by the hot springs at Aachen
            https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CarolusThermen02.JPG#/media/File:CarolusThermen04.jpg
 
Coming up to date, we briefly discussed the pros and cons of disposable coffee cups. Stuart pointed out that paper cups are not necessarily an environmental hazard like plastic ones because coffee companies are planting new trees as they use old ones.
​
Lily mentioned the comon claim about Greek not having a word for blue, which, as discussed at https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-the-ancient-Greeks-did-not-have-name-for-color-blue, is actually untrue.  Claire Jordan suggests the idea arose from the Greeks describing the sky as bronze-coloured because people do not realize that bronze can develop a blue patina: 
Picture
                                                                         Blue patina on a bronze casing
                    https://deployant.com/the-bronzed-patina-the-curious-case-of-patina-how-to-get-it-and-how-not-to/
 
Another contributor provides a list of the principal colour terms in ancient Greek:
 
  • ἐρυθρός (erythrós) means “red,” but especially “deep red” or “crimson.”
  • κόκκος (kókkos) means “scarlet.”
  • ῥοδόεις (rhodóeis) means “pink” or “rosy.” As I discuss in this article I wrote, the name of the ancient Greek Cinderella, Rhodopis (Ῥοδῶπις; Rhodôpis), means “rosy-eyed” or “rosy-faced.”
  • χλωρός (khlōrós) means “bright green,” “greenish yellow,” or “yellow.”
  • χρύσεος (khrýseos) means “golden.”
  • ξανθός (xanthós) means “reddish yellow,” “brownish yellow,” or “light brown.” It is the color of Achilleus’s hair. A slave with the name Ξανθίας (Xanthíās), which means “blondie,” appears in many of the comedies of Aristophanes.
  • γλαυκός (glaukós) means “light gray,” “bluish gray,” or “light blue.” It is the color of Athena’s eyes.
  • ἀργύρεος (argýreos) means “silver.”
  • πολιός (poliós) means “dark gray.”
  • κύανος (kýanos) means “dark blue.”
  • κυάνεος (kyáneos) also means “dark blue.”
  • οἶνοψ (oînops) means “wine-looking.” It can be used to describe things that are dark blue, but does not refer to a specific color. It is famously used to describe the sea in the Homeric poems.
  • πορφύρεος (porphýreos) means “dark blue,” “indigo,” or “purple.”
  • φοῖνιξ (phoînix) means “crimson” or “deep purple.”
  • λευκός (leukós) means “white” or “pale.”
  • μέλας (mélās) means “very dark in color,” “dark brown,” or “black.”
CAPUT XXXVI
 
Ubi in oppidum perventum est, viātōrēs statim ad caupōnem dēvertērunt, ut sine morā
     When  to  town        reached      it-was   travellers  at-once     to   inn                    went-off     so-that without delay
litterae obsignātae solverentur. Intus scrīptum erat Lugdūnum[1] Cornēliō iter faciendum esse,
letter      sealed    could-be-unfastened inside written had-been to-Lugdunum for-Cornelius journey necessary-making to-be
eumque ibi cognitūrum quid porrō agendum esset.
and-him  there  going-to-learn  what  further  to-be-done  was
"Omnia tam incerta sunt!" inquit Drūsilla suspīrāns. 5 "Fortasse, coniūnx, annum tōtum
   All-things  so   uncertain are                said   Drusilla    sighing                      perhaps   husband       year   whole
ā nōbīs aberis."
From us  you-will-be-away
"Ūnum saltem certum est," inquit Cornēlius. "Manē ad Galliam Trānsalpīnam mihi est
      One-thing at-least   certain is    said     Cornelius     in-morning       to  Gaul    Transalpine             for-me is
proficīscendum. Nunc autem ratiōnēs quaedam sunt cōnficiendae; et nōnnūlla sunt, quae
necessary-setting-out   now   however accounts  some     are  necessary-finishing and  some-things are  which
Pūbliō nostrō praecipere    volō." 10
to-Publius  our  to-give-as-instructions I-want
Quae cum dīxisset, Onēsimum arcessīvit, ac cum Pūbliō sē recēpit in conclāve parvum;
These-things when he-had-said  Onesimus  he-sent-for   and  with  Publius self  took-back into room    small
 ubi duās hōrās negotiīs variīs opera data est.
where  two   hours to-business  various  attention given was

NOTE

[1] Lugdunum (modern Lyon), probably `Stronghold of [the god] Lug’ in Gallic, was founded in 43 B.C. at the confluence of the Rhone and Saone and was the birthplace. of the emperors Claudius (10 B.C.) and Caracalla (198 A.D.) . A major urban centre, it was the capital of Gallia Lugdunensis, which, together with Narbonensis, Aquitania and Belgica, covered most of modern France and Belgium. Lugdunensis included both Lutetia Parisiorum (Paris) and Armorica (Brittany). Lugdunum was in 197 the site of a battle between Septimius Severus and his rival Clodius Albinus, who had made the city his headquarters, Following Severus’s victory, Lugdunum may not have regained its earlier prosperity though it remained an important administrative centre. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugdunum .

 
Interim līberī, quī nōn habēbant quō modo sē oblectārent, paulisper tacentēs sēdērunt.
   Meanwhile the-children who not   had      in-what way themselves they-could-amuse short-while silent  sat
Tum Annae Sextus: "Lepida 15 fuērunt ea, quae hodiē nōbīs nārrāvistī," inquit; "et ūnum
Then   to-Anna   Sextus  cool     were  those-things which today us    you-told       said    and  one-thing
adhūc restat, quod ego rogāre velim. Dīxistī etiam pecora esse trucīdāta, cum Ierīcō captā
still     remains  which  I  to-ask  would-like you-said  even  cattle  to-have-been slaughtered when Jericho captured
esset . Quid, obsecrō, dē aurō argentōque et cēterīs opibus incolārum est factum?"
What     please   about  gold       and-silver   and  other  wealth    of-inhabitants was  done
"Urbs tōta est incēnsā," inquit Anna; "sed aurum argentumque 20 et vāsa aut aēnea aut
      City  whole was burned   said  Anna   but   gold    and-silver   and vessels either of-bronze or
ferrea in aerārium deī suprēmī dēlāta sunt omnia; nam ita praeceptum erat." Dēleō dēferrō
of-iron  into treasury   of-god   supreme brought were    all    for  thus    ordered     had-been
"Nihilōminus," inquit Sextus, "mihi mīrandum vidētur mīlītēs voluisse tantam praedam
      Nevertheless      said    Sextus   to-me   amazing    it-seems  soldiers to-have-wanted so-much  loot
ē manibus suīs dīmittere."
from  hands  own to-let-go
"Ūnus erat, Āchān nōmine," inquit Anna, "quī cupiditātī 25 suae moderārī nōn potuit, ac
      One  there-was Achan    by-name   said  Anna   who     greed      own   to-control  not  was-able and
quandam vestem splendidam magnamque vim aurī et argentī in tabernāculum reportāvit suum
a-certain     garment   splendid     and-great   quantity of-gold and   silver into   tent          brought-back  his
ibique humī operuit.
and-there  in-ground buried 
"Nec vērō deus īrae suae signa dubia dedit.[1] Cum enim nostrī iterum cum hostibus
      Nor  indeed  god of-anger his signs   doubtful  gave    when  for    our-people again   with enemy
proeliō congressī essent, magnā caede fūsī 30 terga vertērunt; nam nōn diūtius aspectum
in-battle    met       had   with-great  slaughter routed  backs  they-turned   for  not  any-longer  sight
adversāriōrum ferre poterant.
of-adversaries     to-bear  were-able
"Hāc mūtātiōne rērum vehementer commōtus, Iōsue deum cōnsuluit quam ob causam
     By-this  alteration  of-things  greatly        disturbance   Joshua   god   consulted  what for   reason
hoc tantum malum incidisset. Cui respōnsum est aliquem, cupiditāte inductum, aurum 35
this   so-great   evil    had-occurred  to-him  replied  it-was  someone  by-greed     influenced  gold
argentumque sacrum in suum tabernāculum reportāsse;[2] quī ut ēligerētur,        sortēs
and-silver      sacred    into   own    tent    to-have-brought-back   who so-that  could-be-picked-out  lots
dūcendās esse
necessary-drawn to-be
"Hōc respōnsō acceptō, Iōsue populum per gentēs familiāsque ēvocāvit; ac, sortibus
     With-this reply    received     Joshua  people  by   clans    and-families   called-out  and  with-lots
ductīs, Āchān dēsignātus est. Tum 40 ille dīxit sē, praedā optimā oblātā, temperāre nōn
drawn   Achan   picked-out   was  then     he   said  self with-lot   excellent  offered restrain-himself  not
potuisse     quīn   vestem et aurum argentumque sibi auferret.
to-have-been-able  so-not    garment and    gold  and-silver      for-himself he-carry-off
"Quae ubi cognita sunt, missī ad tabernāculum praedam absconditam invēnērunt. Tum
    These-things when learned were those-sent to   tent           booty     hidden          found
Iōsue et populus ūniversus in quandam vallem cīvem scelestum et fllīōs flliāsque  ūna cum
Joshua and  people    whole     to  a-certain   valley    citizen   wicked   and  sons  and-daughters together with

NOTES
[1] ie. God left nobody in doubt about his anger,
[2] A contraction of perfect infinitive reportāvisse

bōbus et asinīs dedūxērunt. 45
cattle and asses  brought
"Ibi cum sontēs   saxīs obrutī essent, strue factā, Āchān et līberī, ūnā cum pecudibus et
   There when the-guilty with-stones overwhelmed had-been with-heap made  Achan and children together with cattle
ipsō tabernāculō tōtāque praedā, ignī cōnsūmptī sunt. Sīc īra deī plācāta est."
itself     tent        and-all    loot    by-fire   consumed were  thus anger of-god appeased was
Tum Drūsilla, quae quoque haec attentē audierat[1]: "In avāritiā," 50 inquit, "quantum est
     Then   Drusilla   who   also    these-things attentively had-heard in    greed        said  how-much there-is
malī! Profectō ā poētā probē dictum est:
of-evil    of-course by   poet  rightly  said  it-was
“'Quid nōn mortālia pectora cōgis,
 What    not  mortal    hearts    you-compel [to-do]
Aurī sacra famēs!'"[2]
Of-gold accursed  hunger
Postquam grātiae Annae actae sunt, līberī paulisper cum Lūciō lūsērunt. Tum cēnae
     After        thanks   to-Anna made  were   children  a-short-while with Lucius  played   then  of-dinner
tempus haud aequō animō[3] exspectābant; 55 sed postrēmō pater et Pūblius, negōtiō
time      not   with-balanced mind  were-waiting-for     but    finally    father and  Publius  with-business
cōnfectō, ad cēterōs rediērunt, ac simul nūntiātum est cēnam adpositam esse.
finished     to  others    returned  and at-same-time announced it-was dinner  served    to-have-been

NOTES
[1] audierat is the reduced form of the pluperfect audīverat
[2] Vergil, Aeneid III 56ff. Aeneas, telling Dido his adventures after escaping from Troy, refers to the murder by a Thracian king of Polydorus, who had been sent to him by his father, King Priam of Troy, for safety. The murderer wanted both to ingratiate himself with Agamemnon and the Greeks and to seize the gold Polydorus had brought with him. The adjective sacer (sacred) could also mean `accursed’, i.e. dedicated to a god for destruction.
[3] aequō animō: patiently, calmly

Interim Stasimus sē immiscuerat sermōnibus servōrum, quī in dēversōriō habitābant; et
      Meanwhile  Stasimus himself had-involved   in-conversation  of-slaves who  in    inn        were-living  and
post cēnam in culīnā clārē resonābant frequentēs cachinnī. Postrēmō intrat senex mōrōsus, quī
after   dinner  in  kitchen  clearly were-ringing-out frequently  bursts-of-laughter finally there-enters old-man grumpy who
60 ab omnibus cōnservīs suīs lūdibriō habēbātur; quem ut lūdificāret,           hōc modō
   by     all   fellow-slaves  his as-a-laughing-stock was-regarded whom so-that he-could- -make—fun-of  in-this  way
incipit Stasimus:
begins    Stasimus
Stasimus. Quid nunc, pater? Quid agis?
           What   now    father  how are-you-doing
Senex. Iuvenem scelestum atque adeō impudīcum aspiciō.
      Youth      wicked      and   so     shameless    I’m looking-at
Stasimus. Itane vērō? Ubi est ille, obsecrō? Nam ego 65 quidem eum nusquam videō.
        Thus-?  really  where is  he    please    for   I         indeed   him   nowhere    see
Senex. Sī nōn vidēs, at sentiēs dēmum,  cum prō dēlictīs tuīs tergum virgīs caedētur.
       If not   see   still  you-will-feel eventually when for   crimes   your  back  by-rods  will-be-cut
Stasimus. Nōlī maledīcere. Quid, obsecrō, hodiē fēcistī?
          Don’t   be-insulting    what     please    today have-you-done
Senex. Nēmō mē miserior  vīvit! Duās hōrās tōtās aquam 70 ē fonte ferre coāctus sum;
           Nobody than-me more-miserable lives  two   hours  whole   water   from spring to-bring forced  I-was
nec quisquam mē adiuvāre voluit.
and-not  anyone  me   to-help    was-willing
Stasimus. Quō modō tē nunc adiuvāre possumus?
         In-what way you now    help       we-can
Senex. Ēheu! 
 Oh dear!
Stasimus. Ēheu? Ita quidem tē libenter adiuvābō.
         Oh dear? That way indeed you  gladly  I will help
Senex. Miser sum; argentī[1] nihil habeō— 75
      Miserable I-am  of-silver nothing I-have
Stasimus. Ēheu!
         Oh dear!
Senex. Nec mihi ūlla grātia est.
      And-not to-me any  gratitude is
Stasimus. Ēheu! 80
        Oh dear!
Senex. Cotīdiē labōribus adsiduīs cōnficior.
       Every-day   by-labours unceasing I-m-worn-out
Stasimus. Ēheu!
        Oh dear!
Senex. Istō modō mē adiuvās, mastīgia?
      In-that way  me   you-help  rogue
Stasimus. Dō    quod mihi est; dīvitiās aliās nūllās habeō.
        I’m-giving  what  to-me there-is riches   other   none  I-have
Senex. Apage[2] ā mē istās dīvitīās.
      Get-away from me those riches
Stasimus. Hoc animadverte, senex. Nōnne vīs nunc sāltāre? 85
This    mark-well     old-man   Don’t you-want now   to-dance

NOTES
[1] Because the most commonly used coins were of silver, argentum could also refer to money in general, the sense which it retains in French argent. This meaning makes better sense here, though Nutting, in the vocabulary gives only `silver, silver plate’ as translation equivalents.
[2] The Greek imperative ἄπαγε (`Take away!) was frequently used as an interjection (`Away with it!’) in both Greek and Latin

Senex. Abī in maximam malam crucem.[1] Mēne īnsānīre putās?
      Go-away onto greatest   bad     cross    me-?   to-be-mad  you-think
Stasimus. Nōnne igitur manibus ambulāre vīs?
         Don’t-you therefore on-hands   to-walk wish?
Senex. Papae! Dēlīrat profectō. Quid nunc nōbīs faciēndum est? 90
       Waah  He’s-crazy   obviously  What  now by-is      to-be-done    is
Stasimus. Bacchus[2] mē in montēs vocat;   sed abīre nōn possum quod domus sīmiīs
             Bacchus   me  into  mountains is-calling but   leave  not   I-can      because  house with-apes
opplēta est, et portam occupat hic canis rabidus.
filled     is  and   gate    occupies this   dog   rabid
Senex. Vae mihi! Canem rabidum mē esse dīcit.  Ut oculī 95 scintillant! Male metuō nē
           Woe to-me   dog     rabid     me  to-be  he-says how  eyes     flash       badly   I-fear  lest
in mē inruat.
at  me   he-may-rush
Stasimus. Nunc manū fustem capiō, quō      caput illī canī rabidō comminuam.
         Now   in-hand  club  I’m-taking with-which  head  for-that dog   rabid  I-can-smash
Quae cum dīxisset, scīpīōne arreptō, in senem impetum tam subitō fēcit, ut ille terrōre
     Which-things when-he-had-said with-staff grabbed  on  old-man  attack    so sudden  he-made that he with-terror
āmēns forās    maximīs clāmōribus 100 ērumperet, cum reliquī semel atque iterum tollerent
out-of-his-mind outside with-very-loud  shouts         he-rushed    whilst  the-rest  once   and    again  raised
cachinnōs.
chuckles

NOTES
[1] Abī in malam rem and abī in (maximam) malam crucem (referring to death by crucifixion) are both functionally equivalent to `Go to hell!’
[2] The god Bacchus was supposed to lead bands of followers – Bacchantes – in wild revels through the countryside.

Hōc tumultū audītō, Cornēlius: "Suspicor," inquit, "Stasimum istum scelestum rūrsus
     With-this uproar   heard    Cornelius      I-suspect     said     Stasimus     that     villain     again
dolōs suōs versāre. Abī, Pūblī, atque exquīre quid factum sit."
tricks  his    to-be-up-to  Go-off Publius  and   enquire  what   happened
Paulō post reversus Pūblius rīdēns: "Stasimus lūdificāns, 105 ut solet,"   inquit, "sē
     a-little after    having-retuned Publius laughing  Stasimus  playing-jokes  as  he-normally-does  said  himself
īnsānum esse simulābat, et  cuidam senī mōrōsō tantum iniēcit terrōrem, ut ille summō cursū
insane     to-be   was-pretending and  in-a-certain old-man grumpy such-great instilled   fear  that he  at-top     speed
forās effugeret.
outside    fled
"Cēterī autem, quī maximā dēlectātiōne haec omnia vīderant, cum senex perterritus
      The-rest  however who  with-greatest delight    these  al-things  had-seen  when  old-man  terrified
forās fūgisset, in cachinnōs tantōs ērūpērunt, ut subitō corrueret subsellium, in quō sedēbant
outside   had-fled into  laughter    so-great  burst     that suddenly  collapsed    bench     on  which  were-sitting
duo 110 servī obēsī; quī ita humī effūsī sunt supīnī."
two      slaves  fat   who thus on-ground sprawled were on-backs
"Hahahae!" inquit Sextus. "Vellem adfuissem. Profectō nihil est Stasimō nostrō
       Ha-ha-ha     sadi    Sextus   I-wish    I-had-been-there Of-course nothing is  than-Stasimus our
facētius."
Funnier


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