QUESTIONS ARISING FROM 124th. MEETING – 18/6/21 (the record of earlier meetings can be downloaded from the main Circulus page as can the version of Ciceronis Filius with illustrations added. The illustrated text of Genesis is available on the Genesis page, of Kepler's Somnium on the Somnium page and of Nutting's Ad Alpes on the Ad Alpes page)
QUESTIONS ARISING FROM 124th SESSION 18/6/21 To get round the problem of Covid regulations requiring us to sit in different groups, Eugene arranged the seating as if for a seminar, so we could face each other over a gap between rows of tables. Items then consumed included agnīna cum orȳza arōmatica (lamb biryani), melongēna contūsa (baigan bharta, mashed aubergine or egg-plant), batātae cum brassicā Pompēiānā (alu gobi, potato with cauliflower) cicera arōmatica (chana masala, spiced chickpeas), pānis Persicus (nan) , spīnāchia cum caseō (palak paneer, spinach with cheese), orȳza pilauna (pilao (or pulao) rice), squillaarōmatica (prawn masala), gallīnācea butyrāta, gallīnācea cum aliō (garlic chicken), holera mixta frīcta cum aliō (garlic fried mixed vegetables), okrum arōmaticum (bhindi masala, `lady’s fingers’, okra with spices) and, of course,vīnum rubrum,
We have up to now referred to biryani as orȳza arōmatica (`fragrant rice’) and the same term could also be used for pilao/pulao rice. However, whilst both dishes are made with rice and spices, biryani is a more eleaborate dish, with richer ingredients and a different cooking method, as explained by experts at https://biryanibykilo.com/blog-the-real-difference-between-pulao-and-biryani It might, therefore be more logical to reserve orȳza arōmatica for pilao and coin the term biriāna for the other dish. However, having used orȳza arōmatica for the more comple dish for so long, it seems easoier to stick to that practice and use pilauna for the simpler one.
We read from the start of chapter 36 in Ad Alpes to line 113. This includes the Old Testament story of how Achan, together with his whole household and animals, was stoned to death as punishment for keeping for himself booty which should have been consecrated to Jehovah. Zhang Wei wondered whether there was a connection with the name of Aachen (alias Aix-la-Chapelle), Charlemagene’s capital in the modern German province of North Rhine-Westphalia on the border with Belgium and the Netherlands. The name is actually from ahha (Old High German for `water’ or `stream’, corresponding to modern German Aach, `river’ or `stream’) and refers to the springs which made Aachen a spa town,
The town’s Latin name was Aquae Granni (`Waters of Grannus’), Grannus being the Celtic god of healing to whom the waters were sacred. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aachen#Etymology and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grannus The name Aquae Grannīis is paralleled by Aquae Sūlis (modern Bath in SW England) and the Romans equated Grannus with Apollo just as they did the Celtic goddess Sulis with Minerva.
Coming up to date, we briefly discussed the pros and cons of disposable coffee cups. Stuart pointed out that paper cups are not necessarily an environmental hazard like plastic ones because coffee companies are planting new trees as they use old ones. Lily mentioned the comon claim about Greek not having a word for blue, which, as discussed at https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-the-ancient-Greeks-did-not-have-name-for-color-blue, is actually untrue. Claire Jordan suggests the idea arose from the Greeks describing the sky as bronze-coloured because people do not realize that bronze can develop a blue patina:
Another contributor provides a list of the principal colour terms in ancient Greek:
ἐρυθρός (erythrós) means “red,” but especially “deep red” or “crimson.”
κόκκος (kókkos) means “scarlet.”
ῥοδόεις (rhodóeis) means “pink” or “rosy.” As I discuss in this article I wrote, the name of the ancient Greek Cinderella, Rhodopis (Ῥοδῶπις; Rhodôpis), means “rosy-eyed” or “rosy-faced.”
χλωρός (khlōrós) means “bright green,” “greenish yellow,” or “yellow.”
χρύσεος (khrýseos) means “golden.”
ξανθός (xanthós) means “reddish yellow,” “brownish yellow,” or “light brown.” It is the color of Achilleus’s hair. A slave with the name Ξανθίας (Xanthíās), which means “blondie,” appears in many of the comedies of Aristophanes.
γλαυκός (glaukós) means “light gray,” “bluish gray,” or “light blue.” It is the color of Athena’s eyes.
ἀργύρεος (argýreos) means “silver.”
πολιός (poliós) means “dark gray.”
κύανος (kýanos) means “dark blue.”
κυάνεος (kyáneos) also means “dark blue.”
οἶνοψ (oînops) means “wine-looking.” It can be used to describe things that are dark blue, but does not refer to a specific color. It is famously used to describe the sea in the Homeric poems.
πορφύρεος (porphýreos) means “dark blue,” “indigo,” or “purple.”
φοῖνιξ (phoînix) means “crimson” or “deep purple.”
λευκός (leukós) means “white” or “pale.”
μέλας (mélās) means “very dark in color,” “dark brown,” or “black.”
CAPUT XXXVI
Ubi in oppidum perventum est, viātōrēs statim ad caupōnem dēvertērunt, ut sine morā When to town reached it-was travellers at-once to inn went-off so-that without delay litterae obsignātae solverentur. Intus scrīptum erat Lugdūnum[1] Cornēliō iter faciendum esse, letter sealed could-be-unfastened inside written had-been to-Lugdunum for-Cornelius journey necessary-making to-be eumque ibi cognitūrum quid porrō agendum esset. and-him there going-to-learn what further to-be-done was "Omnia tam incerta sunt!" inquit Drūsilla suspīrāns. 5 "Fortasse, coniūnx, annum tōtum All-things so uncertain are said Drusilla sighing perhaps husband year whole ā nōbīs aberis." From us you-will-be-away "Ūnum saltem certum est," inquit Cornēlius. "Manē ad Galliam Trānsalpīnam mihi est One-thing at-least certain is said Cornelius in-morning to Gaul Transalpine for-me is proficīscendum. Nunc autem ratiōnēs quaedam sunt cōnficiendae; et nōnnūlla sunt, quae necessary-setting-out now however accounts some are necessary-finishing and some-things are which Pūbliō nostrō praecipere volō." 10 to-Publius our to-give-as-instructions I-want Quae cum dīxisset, Onēsimum arcessīvit, ac cum Pūbliō sē recēpit in conclāve parvum; These-things when he-had-said Onesimus he-sent-for and with Publius self took-back into room small ubi duās hōrās negotiīs variīs opera data est. where two hours to-business various attention given was NOTE [1] Lugdunum (modern Lyon), probably `Stronghold of [the god] Lug’ in Gallic, was founded in 43 B.C. at the confluence of the Rhone and Saone and was the birthplace. of the emperors Claudius (10 B.C.) and Caracalla (198 A.D.) . A major urban centre, it was the capital of Gallia Lugdunensis, which, together with Narbonensis, Aquitania and Belgica, covered most of modern France and Belgium. Lugdunensis included both Lutetia Parisiorum (Paris) and Armorica (Brittany). Lugdunum was in 197 the site of a battle between Septimius Severus and his rival Clodius Albinus, who had made the city his headquarters, Following Severus’s victory, Lugdunum may not have regained its earlier prosperity though it remained an important administrative centre. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugdunum .
Interim līberī, quī nōn habēbant quō modo sē oblectārent, paulisper tacentēs sēdērunt. Meanwhile the-children who not had in-what way themselves they-could-amuse short-while silent sat Tum Annae Sextus: "Lepida 15 fuērunt ea, quae hodiē nōbīs nārrāvistī," inquit; "et ūnum Then to-Anna Sextus cool were those-things which today us you-told said and one-thing adhūc restat, quod ego rogāre velim. Dīxistī etiam pecora esse trucīdāta, cum Ierīcō captā still remains which I to-ask would-like you-said even cattle to-have-been slaughtered when Jericho captured esset . Quid, obsecrō, dē aurō argentōque et cēterīs opibus incolārum est factum?" What please about gold and-silver and other wealth of-inhabitants was done "Urbs tōta est incēnsā," inquit Anna; "sed aurum argentumque 20 et vāsa aut aēnea aut City whole was burned said Anna but gold and-silver and vessels either of-bronze or ferrea in aerārium deī suprēmī dēlāta sunt omnia; nam ita praeceptum erat." Dēleō dēferrō of-iron into treasury of-god supreme brought were all for thus ordered had-been "Nihilōminus," inquit Sextus, "mihi mīrandum vidētur mīlītēs voluisse tantam praedam Nevertheless said Sextus to-me amazing it-seems soldiers to-have-wanted so-much loot ē manibus suīs dīmittere." from hands own to-let-go "Ūnus erat, Āchān nōmine," inquit Anna, "quī cupiditātī 25 suae moderārī nōn potuit, ac One there-was Achan by-name said Anna who greed own to-control not was-able and quandam vestem splendidam magnamque vim aurī et argentī in tabernāculum reportāvit suum a-certain garment splendid and-great quantity of-gold and silver into tent brought-back his ibique humī operuit. and-there in-ground buried "Nec vērō deus īrae suae signa dubia dedit.[1] Cum enim nostrī iterum cum hostibus Nor indeed god of-anger his signs doubtful gave when for our-people again with enemy proeliō congressī essent, magnā caede fūsī 30 terga vertērunt; nam nōn diūtius aspectum in-battle met had with-great slaughter routed backs they-turned for not any-longer sight adversāriōrum ferre poterant. of-adversaries to-bear were-able "Hāc mūtātiōne rērum vehementer commōtus, Iōsue deum cōnsuluit quam ob causam By-this alteration of-things greatly disturbance Joshua god consulted what for reason hoc tantum malum incidisset. Cui respōnsum est aliquem, cupiditāte inductum, aurum 35 this so-great evil had-occurred to-him replied it-was someone by-greed influenced gold argentumque sacrum in suum tabernāculum reportāsse;[2] quī ut ēligerētur, sortēs and-silver sacred into own tent to-have-brought-back who so-that could-be-picked-out lots dūcendās esse necessary-drawn to-be "Hōc respōnsō acceptō, Iōsue populum per gentēs familiāsque ēvocāvit; ac, sortibus With-this reply received Joshua people by clans and-families called-out and with-lots ductīs, Āchān dēsignātus est. Tum 40 ille dīxit sē, praedā optimā oblātā, temperāre nōn drawn Achan picked-out was then he said self with-lot excellent offered restrain-himself not potuisse quīn vestem et aurum argentumque sibi auferret. to-have-been-able so-not garment and gold and-silver for-himself he-carry-off "Quae ubi cognita sunt, missī ad tabernāculum praedam absconditam invēnērunt. Tum These-things when learned were those-sent to tent booty hidden found Iōsue et populus ūniversus in quandam vallem cīvem scelestum et fllīōs flliāsque ūna cum Joshua and people whole to a-certain valley citizen wicked and sons and-daughters together with
NOTES [1] ie. God left nobody in doubt about his anger, [2] A contraction of perfect infinitive reportāvisse
bōbus et asinīs dedūxērunt. 45 cattle and asses brought "Ibi cum sontēs saxīs obrutī essent, strue factā, Āchān et līberī, ūnā cum pecudibus et There when the-guilty with-stones overwhelmed had-been with-heap made Achan and children together with cattle ipsō tabernāculō tōtāque praedā, ignī cōnsūmptī sunt. Sīc īra deī plācāta est." itself tent and-all loot by-fire consumed were thus anger of-god appeased was Tum Drūsilla, quae quoque haec attentē audierat[1]: "In avāritiā," 50 inquit, "quantum est Then Drusilla who also these-things attentively had-heard in greed said how-much there-is malī! Profectō ā poētā probē dictum est: of-evil of-course by poet rightly said it-was “'Quid nōn mortālia pectora cōgis, What not mortal hearts you-compel [to-do] Aurī sacra famēs!'"[2] Of-gold accursed hunger Postquam grātiae Annae actae sunt, līberī paulisper cum Lūciō lūsērunt. Tum cēnae After thanks to-Anna made were children a-short-while with Lucius played then of-dinner tempus haud aequō animō[3] exspectābant; 55 sed postrēmō pater et Pūblius, negōtiō time not with-balanced mind were-waiting-for but finally father and Publius with-business cōnfectō, ad cēterōs rediērunt, ac simul nūntiātum est cēnam adpositam esse. finished to others returned and at-same-time announced it-was dinner served to-have-been
NOTES [1]audierat is the reduced form of the pluperfect audīverat [2] Vergil, Aeneid III 56ff. Aeneas, telling Dido his adventures after escaping from Troy, refers to the murder by a Thracian king of Polydorus, who had been sent to him by his father, King Priam of Troy, for safety. The murderer wanted both to ingratiate himself with Agamemnon and the Greeks and to seize the gold Polydorus had brought with him. The adjective sacer (sacred) could also mean `accursed’, i.e. dedicated to a god for destruction. [3]aequō animō: patiently, calmly
Interim Stasimus sē immiscuerat sermōnibus servōrum, quī in dēversōriō habitābant; et Meanwhile Stasimus himself had-involved in-conversation of-slaves who in inn were-living and post cēnam in culīnā clārē resonābant frequentēs cachinnī. Postrēmō intrat senex mōrōsus, quī after dinner in kitchen clearly were-ringing-out frequently bursts-of-laughter finally there-enters old-man grumpy who 60 ab omnibus cōnservīs suīs lūdibriō habēbātur; quem ut lūdificāret, hōc modō by all fellow-slaves his as-a-laughing-stock was-regarded whom so-that he-could- -make—fun-of in-this way incipit Stasimus: begins Stasimus Stasimus. Quid nunc, pater? Quid agis? What now father how are-you-doing Senex. Iuvenem scelestum atque adeō impudīcum aspiciō. Youth wicked and so shameless I’m looking-at Stasimus. Itane vērō? Ubi est ille, obsecrō? Nam ego 65 quidem eum nusquam videō. Thus-? really where is he please for I indeed him nowhere see Senex. Sī nōn vidēs, at sentiēs dēmum, cum prō dēlictīs tuīs tergum virgīs caedētur. If not see still you-will-feel eventually when for crimes your back by-rods will-be-cut Stasimus. Nōlī maledīcere. Quid, obsecrō, hodiē fēcistī? Don’t be-insulting what please today have-you-done Senex. Nēmō mē miserior vīvit! Duās hōrās tōtās aquam 70 ē fonte ferre coāctus sum; Nobody than-me more-miserable lives two hours whole water from spring to-bring forced I-was nec quisquam mē adiuvāre voluit. and-not anyone me to-help was-willing Stasimus. Quō modō tē nunc adiuvāre possumus? In-what way you now help we-can Senex. Ēheu! Oh dear! Stasimus. Ēheu? Ita quidem tē libenter adiuvābō. Oh dear? That way indeed you gladly I will help Senex. Miser sum; argentī[1] nihil habeō— 75 Miserable I-am of-silver nothing I-have Stasimus. Ēheu! Oh dear! Senex. Nec mihi ūlla grātia est. And-not to-me any gratitude is Stasimus. Ēheu! 80 Oh dear! Senex. Cotīdiē labōribus adsiduīs cōnficior. Every-day by-labours unceasing I-m-worn-out Stasimus. Ēheu! Oh dear! Senex. Istō modō mē adiuvās, mastīgia? In-that way me you-help rogue Stasimus. Dō quod mihi est; dīvitiās aliās nūllās habeō. I’m-giving what to-me there-is riches other none I-have Senex. Apage[2] ā mē istās dīvitīās. Get-away from me those riches Stasimus. Hoc animadverte, senex. Nōnne vīs nunc sāltāre? 85 This mark-well old-man Don’t you-want now to-dance
NOTES [1] Because the most commonly used coins were of silver, argentum could also refer to money in general, the sense which it retains in French argent. This meaning makes better sense here, though Nutting, in the vocabulary gives only `silver, silver plate’ as translation equivalents. [2] The Greek imperative ἄπαγε (`Take away!) was frequently used as an interjection (`Away with it!’) in both Greek and Latin
Senex. Abī in maximam malam crucem.[1] Mēne īnsānīre putās? Go-away onto greatest bad cross me-? to-be-mad you-think Stasimus. Nōnne igitur manibus ambulāre vīs? Don’t-you therefore on-hands to-walk wish? Senex. Papae! Dēlīrat profectō. Quid nunc nōbīs faciēndum est? 90 Waah He’s-crazy obviously What now by-is to-be-done is Stasimus. Bacchus[2] mē in montēs vocat; sed abīre nōn possum quod domus sīmiīs Bacchus me into mountains is-calling but leave not I-can because house with-apes opplēta est, et portam occupat hic canis rabidus. filled is and gate occupies this dog rabid Senex. Vae mihi! Canem rabidum mē esse dīcit. Ut oculī 95 scintillant! Male metuō nē Woe to-me dog rabid me to-be he-says how eyes flash badly I-fear lest in mē inruat. at me he-may-rush Stasimus. Nunc manū fustem capiō, quō caput illī canī rabidō comminuam. Now in-hand club I’m-taking with-which head for-that dog rabid I-can-smash Quae cum dīxisset, scīpīōne arreptō, in senem impetum tam subitō fēcit, ut ille terrōre Which-things when-he-had-said with-staff grabbed on old-man attack so sudden he-made that he with-terror āmēns forās maximīs clāmōribus 100 ērumperet, cum reliquī semel atque iterum tollerent out-of-his-mind outside with-very-loud shouts he-rushed whilst the-rest once and again raised cachinnōs. chuckles
NOTES [1]Abī in malam rem and abī in (maximam) malam crucem (referring to death by crucifixion) are both functionally equivalent to `Go to hell!’ [2] The god Bacchus was supposed to lead bands of followers – Bacchantes – in wild revels through the countryside.
Hōc tumultū audītō, Cornēlius: "Suspicor," inquit, "Stasimum istum scelestum rūrsus With-this uproar heard Cornelius I-suspect said Stasimus that villain again dolōs suōs versāre. Abī, Pūblī, atque exquīre quid factum sit." tricks his to-be-up-to Go-off Publius and enquire what happened Paulō post reversus Pūblius rīdēns: "Stasimus lūdificāns, 105 ut solet," inquit, "sē a-little after having-retuned Publius laughing Stasimus playing-jokes as he-normally-does said himself īnsānum esse simulābat, et cuidam senī mōrōsō tantum iniēcit terrōrem, ut ille summō cursū insane to-be was-pretending and in-a-certain old-man grumpy such-great instilled fear that he at-top speed forās effugeret. outside fled "Cēterī autem, quī maximā dēlectātiōne haec omnia vīderant, cum senex perterritus The-rest however who with-greatest delight these al-things had-seen when old-man terrified forās fūgisset, in cachinnōs tantōs ērūpērunt, ut subitō corrueret subsellium, in quō sedēbant outside had-fled into laughter so-great burst that suddenly collapsed bench on which were-sitting duo 110 servī obēsī; quī ita humī effūsī sunt supīnī." two slaves fat who thus on-ground sprawled were on-backs "Hahahae!" inquit Sextus. "Vellem adfuissem. Profectō nihil est Stasimō nostrō Ha-ha-ha sadi Sextus I-wish I-had-been-there Of-course nothing is than-Stasimus our facētius." Funnier