QUESTIONS ARISING FROM 148th. MEETING – 18/7/23 (the record of earlier meetings can be downloaded from the main Circulus page as can the version of Ciceronis Filius with illustrations added. The illustrated text of Genesis is available on the Genesis page, of Kepler's Somnium on the Somnium page, of Eutropius' Breviarium on the Eutropius page, of Suetonius' Vita Neronis on the Suetonius page and of Nutting's Ad Alpes on the Ad Alpes page)
Food ordered at the Basmati included cicera arōmatica (chana massala, spiced chickpeas), iūs lentium butyrātum (daal makhani), turundae Tibetānaegallīnāceā fartae (momos), carō rubra ( rogan josh, Kashmiri-style lamb curry), spīnāchia cum caseō (palak paneer), pānis tenuis (papadom), pānis Persicus (nan)and orӯza (rice), supplemented by the usual vīnum rubrum.
Hillary had been reading the satirist Persius as a challenge since he is seen as particularly difficult - even more dificult than the better-known Roman satirist, Juvenal. Born in 34 AD, Persius died in 62 but in his short life moved in Stoic circles and enjoyed the patronage of the poet Lucan. The seven hundred lines of his output which survive include mockery of diners with literary pretensions and discussion of the importance of sef-knowledge, of a definite aim in life, of freedom as understood by the Stoics, and of the proper use of money. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persius
There was some discussion of educational and recreational activities for children. Chris Y. recommended Birdintree ( https://www.facebook.com/BirdintreeCreativeStudio2010/ ) for art lessons and also Stingrays Rugby Club (https://www.skstingrays.com/) Chris also felt that the Hong Kong educational system in general focussed too much on mastering just one task and also that gender stereotyping was rife
Jeff argued that non-secular schools were preferable to secular ones for cultural reasons and this reminded John of how people many people saw themselves as cultural Christians whilst still rejecting Christian dogma. A particularly well-known example is British biologist Richard Dwarkins, a miltant atheist who is neverthelsss also a member of a society for the appreciation of the 1611 King James Bible because of its own literary qualities and its immense influence on later literature. There is a good account of this at https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/The-King-James-Bible/
We read chapters 16-20 of Suetonius’ Vīta Nerōnis (see below) and Hillary also told us that she had been reading Josiah Osgood’s How to Be a Bad Emperor, a translation of our own text as well as the lives of Julius Caesar, Tiberius and Caligula. The Latin and the English are presented on facing pages, a format which Hillary liked though she objected to his use of `u’ both for the vowel and for the consonant modern editors usually print as `v’. This practice was in fact followed by the Romans themselves, with universal use of `u’ for lower case and `v’ for upper so that vult was written either VVLT or uult. This paralleled their use of `I’ both for the vowel in vīdī and the consonant in iam.
From the 17th to the 19th century, the second word was normally printed as jam but nowadays we revert to the Roman usage for `I in both cases but retain the unclassical u/v distinction, Osgood, like the late James Morewood, could at least claim that he is consistent!
John explained the significance of his use of `Here’s to temperance’ (Latīne: Temperantiae!) as a toast. This originated with a maternal aunt who was making fun of her mother, an enthusiastic member of the Salvation Army, a Christian organisation organised on quasi-military lines and fervently opposed to the use of alcohol. John’s grandmother was heself firmly teetotal partly because her own father, normally a well-tempered man, had become violent after drinking. The aunt had reacted against this attitude and was an enthusiastic drinker throughout her life, though never becoming anti-social!
The Salvation Army, known affectionately as `Sally Anne’, was founded in the 19th centry by William Booth, who was born in John’s hometown, Nottingham, The organisation is nowadays famous for its charitable work, as well as for its military-style bands, which often perform publicly.
Tanya is currently reading Robert Harris’s Cicero trilogy (Imperium, Lustrum and Dictator) and mentioned that Ciceros is described as handing out chickpeas (cicer, ciceris n) on his travels. John was unsure whether this was mentioned in any historical document but Cicero’s cognōmen certainly derived from cicer, apparently because an ancestor had a chickpea-shaped growth on his nose.
There was a brief discussion of regional differences in China, including the stange fact that Chinese officials who held proniment roles in Fujian seemed often to progesse in their career at national level, though the same could not be said of those who were actually born in the area. As in any large country, inter-regional tensions were common and John recalled how, in Han Su-yin’s autobiography, she reports her Belgian mother (married to a northern Chinese) as saying `The Cantonese, they’re like monkeys!’
Suetonius’ account of Nero refers to pantomīmī, actors who performed all the roles in a play on their own. Someone thought this was similar to the style of some popular YouTubrs nowadays. Vīta Nerōnis also mentions Nero’s setting up a special military unit whose members were all six feet tall and this ptompted a question on the average height of Roman legionaries. Examination of skeletons suggests that the average inhabitant of central Italy in Romnan times was 5’ 4” tall but rhe minimum size for a recruit in the 4th century AD seems to have been 5’6”. Northern barbarians were on average taller than Romans, probably because of their lower populaion dynsasty and the greater amount of meat and dairy produce in their diet. More information is available at the following sites: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1f2g7b/roman_soldiers_physical_size/ (suggesting a usual range for legionaries of 5’6” to 5’9” file:///D:/Documents/LATIN/ROMAN%20HISTORY/ROMAN%20HEALTH.pdf and https://imperiumromanum.pl/en/curiosities/were-roman-legionaries-really-short/
Finally mention was made of Terry Pratchett’s novel Good Omens, in which the Archangel Axiraphale and the demon Crowley, who have grown used to a comfortable existence on eartht, join forces to thwart the arrival of the Apocalypse.
XVI. Fōrmam aedificiōrum urbis novam excōgitāvit et ut ante īnsulās ac domōs Design of-buildings of-city new he-devised and that in-front-of apartment-blocks and houses porticūs essent, dē quārum sōlāriīs incendia arcērentur; eāsque sūmptū suō extrūxit.[1] colonnades there-should-be from whose flat-roofs fires could-be-fought and-these at-expense own he-constructed Dēstinārat etiam Ōstiā tenus moenia prōmovēre atque inde fossā mare veterī urbī indūcere. 2. He-had-planned also as-Ostia as-far-as city-walls to-extend and from-there with-a-canal sea to-old city to-bring-in Multa sub eō et animadversa sēvēre et coercita nec minus īnstitūta: adhibitus sūmptibus Many-things under him both punished reverely and suppressed nor less [new-laws] established applied to-expenditures modus; pūblicae cēnae ad sportulās redāctae; interdictum nē quid in popīnīs coctī praeter limit public banquets to take-away-baskets confined forbidden[it-was] anything in cook-houses cooked except legūmina aut holera venīret, cum anteā nūllum nōn obsōniī[2] genus prōpōnerētur; afflīctī pulses or vegetables should-be-sold when before no not of-relish kind could-be-served subjected-to suppliciīs Chrīstiānī, genus hominum superstitiōnis novae ac maleficae; vetitī quadrīgāriōrum punishment Christians class of-people of-superstition new and destructive forbidden of-chariot-drivers lūsus, quibus inveterātā licentiā passim vagantibus fallere ac fūrārī per iocum iūs erat; pranks for-whom from-time-honoured impunity everywhere wandering to-cheat and rob for joke[claimed]-right was pantomīmōrum factiōnēs cum ipsīs simul relēgātae.[3] of-mime-artists supporters with the-men-thmselves banished
XVĪĪ. Adversus falsāriōs tunc prīmum repertum, nē tabulae nisi pertūsae ac ter līnō per Against forgerers then first devised [it-wās ] that-not tablets unless peforated and thrīce with-thread through forāmina trāiectō obsignārentur;[4] cautum ut testāmentīs prīmae duae cērae testātōrum holēs inserted should-be-signed precaution-was-taken] that for-wills first two leavēs of-testators modo nōmine īnscrīptō vacuae signātūrīs ostenderentur,[5] ac nē quī aliēnī testāmentī scrīptor only with-name inscribed blank to-witnesses should-be-shown and that -not any of-another’s will writer legātum sibi ascrīberet; item ut lītigātōrēs prō patrōciniīs certam iūstamque mercēdem,[6] prō legacy to-himself should write-down alsō that clients for service-of-advocates fixed and-just price for
NOTES [1] Referring to the reconstruction of the city after the great fire of 64. As well as the portico requirement, streets were laid out on a regular parttern and new height restrictions introduced, [2]obsōnium was a term for anything eaten with bread, especially fish, [3] Tacitus (Ann xiii.25) [4] According to the note in the Loeb edition, three tablets were used in a standard contract, the first two being bound together and sealed in the way described. The contract itself was written out twice, both in the sealed portion and on the third, open tablet. If there was any dispute the seal was broken in the presence of the signatories and the two versions compared. [5] The person making the will signed the tablets but only filled in the name(s) of the heir(s) after the witnesses had signed. The word cēra here refers to a wax tablet rather than to wax as a substance. [6] Under the Lex Cincia of 204 B.C.advocates had been barred from charging any fees at all, and were expected to offer help simply as friends. This law had often been disregarded in the late Republic but was revived by Augustus. Claudius then fixed a maximum charge of 10,000 sesterces but Nero, according to Tacitus (Ann.xi.5), initially re-introduced a complete ban on fees and then, if Suetonius is correct, fixed a new limit. Whatever the exact legal position, lawyers often received compensation from their clients in the form of legacies. See Robert Smutney’s `The Sources of Cicero's Income’ The Classical Weekly, Vol. 45, No. 4, 1951, pp. 49-56 ( https://www.jstor.org/stable/4343028 )
subsellis nūllam omnīnō darent praebente aerāriō grātuīta;[1] utque rērum āctū ab aerāriō benches none at-all should-give providing treasury them[for-free] and-that of-procedure in-respect from treasury causae ad Forum ac reciperātōrēs[2] trānsferrentur et ut omnēs appellātiōnēs ā iūdicibus ad cases to Forum and arbitrators should-be-transferred and that all appeals from judges to senātum fierent. Senate should-be-made
XVIII. Augendī propāgandīque imperiī neque voluntāte ūllā neque spē mōtus umquam, etiam Of-increasing amd-expanding empire neither by-desire any nor hope moved ever even ex Britanniā dēdūcere exercitum cōgitāvit, nec nisi verēcundiā, nē obtrectāre parentīs glōriae from Britain withdrawing army he-thought-of nor except by-shame lest to-impair father’s glory vidērētur, dēstitit.[3] Pontī modo rēgnum concēdente Polemōne, item Alpium[4] dēfūnctō seem did-he-desist of-Ponus only kingdom giving-it-up with-Polemon likewise of-Alps having-died Cottiō in prōvinciae fōrmam redēgit.[5] Cottius in of-province form he-reduced
XIX. Peregrīnātiōnēs duās omnīnō suscēpit, Alexandrīnam et Achāicam;[6] sed Alexandrīnā Foreign-tours two altogethwer he-undertook to-Alexandria and to-Achaia but Alexandrian-one ipsō profectiōnis diē dēstitit turbātus religiōne simul ac perīculō. Nam cum circumitīs on-actual of-departure day he-abandoned disturbed by-omen at-same-time and danger for when having-been-walked- templīs in aede Vestae resēdisset, cōnsurgentī eī prīmum lacinia obhaesit, dein tanta oborta taround emples in shrine of-Vesta had-sat-down getting-up for-him first edge-of-garment stuck then so-great arose
NOTES [1] The parties to a suit had apparently been previously required to pay a fee for using the seats provided for their use. [2] As a technical term, reciperātor referred to a member of a judicial panel who could hear certain cases using a simpler procedure than that of the regular courts. Nero’s reform affected cases involving the public treasury (aerārium) which would previously have been heard by the praetors or quaestors in charge of it. [3] The revolt led by the queen of the Iceni, Boudica, in 60 or 61 A.D., during which Camulodunum (Colchester), Verulamium (St. Albans) and Londinium were destroyed, made Nero consider abandoning Britain but withdrawal would have tarnished Claudius’ reputation as the man who hadadded the island to the empire. The rebels were in any case finally defeated by the governor, Suetonius Paulinus, at an unknown site in the Midlands. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica [4] i.e rēgnum Alpium [5] Polemon II, descended on his mother’s side from Mark Anthony, had ruled the eastern section of the old kingdom of Pontus until his abdication in 62 A.D, other parts having been included in the Roman provinces of Bithynia et Pontus and Galatia. Nero may actually have merged the territory with Galatia and under Trajan it was incorporated into Cappadocia. The Cottian Alps, a region in the South-West of the mountain range now divided between Piedmont in Italy and the French departments of Savoie, Hautes-Alpes and Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, were made into a province in 63 A.D. on the death of their client king, Marcus Julius Cotta II. [6] Achaea was the province comprising the Peloponnese and part of northern Greece
cālīgō est,[1] ut dispicere nōn posset. In Achāiā Isthmum perfodere adgressūs praetōriānōs darkness that to-see not he-was-able in Achaia the Isthmus to-dig-through having-attempted praetorians prō contiōne[2] ad incohandum opus cohortātus est tubaeque signō datō prīmus rastellō in-front-of assembly to beginning work he-urged and-of-trumpet with-signal given first with-mattock humum effōdit et corbulae congestam umerīs extulit.[3] Parābat et ad Caspiās portās[4] ground he-dug-up and into-basketr piled on-shoulders carried-away he-started-preparing also at Caspian Gates expedītiōnem cōnscrīptā ex Ītalicīs sēnum pedum tīrōnibus novā legiōne, quam Magnī expedition having-been-enlisted from Italians of-six-each feet recruits new legion which of-Great Alexandrī phalanga appellābat. 3. Haec partim nūllā reprehēnsiōne, partim etiam nōn Alexander phalanx he-called these-things partly with-no cause-to-blame partly even not mediocrī laude digna[5] in ūnum contulī, ut sēcernerem ā probrīs ac sceleribus eius, slight praise worthy into one-place I-have-brought so-that I-might separate from shameful-things and crimes his dē quibus dehinc dīcam. about which from-now-on I-will-speak
XX. Inter cēteras disciplīnās pueritiae tempore imbūtus et mūsicā, statim ut imperium Among other subjects of-boyhood in-time having-been-instructed also in-music immediately power adeptus est, Terpnum[6] citharoedum vigentem tunc praeter aliōs arcessiit diēbusque he-obtained Terpnus citharaplayer excelling then beyond others he-sent-for and on-days continuīs post cēnam canentī[7] in multam noctem assidēns paulātim et ipse meditārī continuous after dinner to-him-performing till late-at night sitting-close gradullay also himself to-practice exercērīque coepit neque eōrum quicquam omittere, quae generis eius artificēs vel and-to-train began and-not of-thoes-things any to-omit which of-kind that artists either cōnservandae vōcis causā vel augendae factitārent; sed et plumbeam chartam supīnus of-being-conserved voice for-sake-of or of-being-strengthened habitually-did but also of-lead sheet on-his-back
NOTES [1] The auxuiliary verb goes with oborta to form the perfect tense. The Loeb translation is `overspread his eyes’ which suggests, plausibly, that Nero had a momentary black-out but the normal meaning of the verb is simply `arose’. [2]contiō can refer both to a meeting and to a speech made to it. [3] According to the epitome of Dio Cassius (63.16), Nero started digging himself because sounds of groaning and the sight of blood spurting from the ground had made the troops too fightened to proceed. The canal project probably lasted a year and involved around 10,000 workers, who cut a substantial way into the Isthmus from the western side. Some traces remain but most have been obliterated by the construction in 1881-93 of the modern Corinth Canal (see https://corinthianmatters.com/2016/04/11/on-the-remains-of-neros-corinth-canal-project/ ) [4] The Caspian Gates were a pass in the Taurus Mountains in SE Asia Minor. Despite Suetonius’ assertion that Nero did not try to extend the empire, he did try to bring the southern Caucasus under Roman control but was prevented by the outbreak of military revolts in the West. The pass has most recently been in the news as the route taken by many Russians fleeing conscription for the war with Ukraine. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darial_Gorge [5] Suetonius allows that Nero did have some achievements to his credit. The emperor Trajan went further, famously praising the quinquennium Nerōnis (`Nero’s five years’), which might refer to the start of his reign, when he was making a sincere attempt to cooperate with the senate, or to the middle period which saw some foreign policy success. See J. G. F. Hind, `The Middle Years of Nero's Reign’, Historia 20:4( 1971), pp. 488-505 https://www.jstor.org/stable/4435214 [6] Terpnus continued to enjoy imperial favour under Vespasian. [7]canō is used both of singing and of playing a stringed or wind instrument.
pectore sustinēre et clystere vomitūque purgārī et abstinēre pōmīs cibīsque officientibus; on-chest to-hold and with-syringe and-vomiting to-be-purged and to-abstain from-fruit and-foods harming[voice] dōnec blandiente prōfectū, quamquam exiguae vōcis et fuscae, prōdīre in scaenam concupiit, until encouraging with-progress although of-weak voice and husky to-ho-out onto stage he-conceived-desire subinde inter familiārēs Graecum prōverbium iactāns occultae mūsicae nūllum esse then among friends Greek proverb quoting for-hidden music no to-be respectum. Et prōdit Neapolī prīmum ac ne concussō quidem repente mōtū terrae theātrō ante respect and he-went-on-stage at-Naples first and not having-been-struck even suddenly by-tremor of-earth theatre before cantāre dēstitit, quam[1] incohātum absolveret nomon. Ibidem saepius et per complūrēs to-sing he-ceased than begun he-finished tune in-same-place more-often and over several diēs; sūmptō[2] etiam ad reficiendam vōcem brevi tempore, impatiēns sēcrētī ā balineīs[3] in days having-been-taken even for being-repaired voice short time intolerant of-seclusion from baths into theātrum transiit mediāque in orchestrā frequente populō epulātus, sī paulum subbibisset,[4] theatre he-went-over and-middle-of in area-before-stage with-thronging people having-feasted if a-bit he-had-had-to-drink aliquid sē suffertī[5] tinnitūrum Graecō sermōne prōmīsit.[6] Captus autem modulātīs something self sounding-good going-to-ring-out in-Greek language he-promised caprivated also by-rhythmic Alexandrīnōrum laudātiōnibus, quī dē novō commeātū Neāpolim cōnflūxerant, plūrēs of-Alexandrians applause who from new fleet to-Naples had-flocked more Alexandrīa ēvocāvit. Neque eō sēgnius adulēscentulōs equestris ōrdinis et quīnque amplius From-alexandria he-called and-not than-that more-slowly young-men of-equestrian order and five more-than mīlia ē plēbe rōbustissimae iuventūtis undique ēlēgit, quī dīvīsī in factiōnēs plausuum genera thousand from plebs of-strongest young-people from-everywhere he-chose who divided into sections of-applause kinds condiscerent -- bombōs et imbricēs et testās vocābant[7] -- operamque nāvārent cantantī sibi, could-learn `bees’ and `tiles’ and `bricks’ they-called-them and-support could-give to-singing himself īnsignēs pinguissimā comā et excellentissimō cultū, pūrīs ac sine ānulō laevīs, quōrum ducēs conspicuous with-very-thick hair and very-fine clothing bare and without ring with-left-hands whose leaders quadringēna mīlia sēstertia merēbant. four-hundred-each thousand sesterces earned,
NOTES [1] The conjunction antequam is frequently split between clauses in this way. [2] Suetonius uses the perfect participle loosely: the break was not finished completely before he felt compelled to get back among his public. [3] The phrase ā balneīs can also mean simply `after bathing’ [4] Pluperfect subjunctive in a subordinate clause in indirect speech dependent on prōmīsit, [5]suffertī is a partitive genitive [6] The use of the perfect tense suggests this behaviour at the intermission was just on one day. [7] The three styles of applause seem to have been making some sort of buzzing sound, clapping with cupped hands (resembling curved roof tiles) and clapping with the hands flat.